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> Wrong Project size of my DVD!
davidecit
post Sep 20 2013, 06:53 PM
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I have 3 mpeg2 files made with nero recode, they are 5,18 gb. Now I'm making a DVD with these three files, but the DVD size result will always be 3,98 GB instead of 4,37-38 (nero showing 4,37 in the green bar). I tried with automatic fit, without automatic fit, smart encoding and not, same resul. I tried also with a costant bitrate of 7790, but always same problem.

I tried with nero 11, nero 12 and nero 2014. I think that's a shame that the problem isn't solved yet, I have to make DVD for my jobs. Where are the lost 400 mb?
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jens-f
post Sep 20 2013, 10:54 PM
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Where did you look up this?
For me it sounds like the difference between GiB and GB. (1 GiB = 1024 MiB = 1024*1024 KiB = 1024*1024*1024 Bytes while 1GB = 1000 MB = 1.000.000 KB = 1.000.000.000 Bytes
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davidecit
post Sep 20 2013, 11:01 PM
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Nero Video in last step before burn/make folder says that the project will be 4.37 gb, and it will be 3,98, so there should be any error about gb = 1024. It seems like a bad calculation of project size. :(. Please solve it, I need this for my job.
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jens-f
post Sep 20 2013, 11:16 PM
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a) Again: Where you see "3,98 GB"?
b) And: What exaclty is the problem? Does the disc not play?
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ArmandLiberi
post Sep 20 2013, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (davidecit @ Sep 20 2013, 11:01 PM) *
Nero Video in last step before burn/make folder says that the project will be 4.37 gb, and it will be 3,98, so there should be any error about gb = 1024. It seems like a bad calculation of project size. :(. Please solve it, I need this for my job.

Assuming the 5,18 gb is GB and the 4.37 gb is GiB, we have:

5.18 GB/1.024/1.024/1.024 = 4.82 GiB. So, that doesn't explain it. Aside from that I would assume the 5.18 GB number came from a Windows properties sheet where sizes are specified in Gib as they are on the Burn Options screen.

Anyway, I have yet to find an MPEG-2 from Recode that was DVD-compatible. In other words, they cannot be "SmartEncoded" for a DVD. So, checking/unchecking that has no effect.

There should be a definite effect if the quality setting is varied among High Quality, Standard Play, Standard Play Plus, Long Play, and Extended Play. Automatic will choose a quality level that should keep the encoded output below the 4.38 GiB DVD limit.

Now, some guess work! Since "SmartEncoding" is not used, the files must be encoded/compressed. If the file takes less space than the estimate, I guess that means that the video images were more compressible than the norm? I'm not seeing the problem here. Is the finished "too small" product not satisfactory? Am I confused?



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davidecit
post Sep 21 2013, 12:23 AM
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Yes, the file are over compressed, I want to have maximum bitrate/quality for 4,37 gb, not for 3,98. The problem is that Nero says "Your dvd iso/folder will be 4,37 gb", while it makes only 3,98 gb. So I could have about 400 mb to improve video quality, that's the problem.


PS: I know that files from nero recode will be re encoded to edit bitrate etc, but after that it should decrease from 5.18 to 4,37, not to 3,98, that's the point. Thanks.
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jens-f
post Sep 21 2013, 12:30 AM
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First: How long are your videos? As there is a maximum allowed bitrare for dvd-video, nero video cannot produce more data, if the videos are to short.
Second: What exactly is resulution, bitrate etc. of your source-files? Nero Video cannot make data "better" as they are
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ArmandLiberi
post Sep 21 2013, 01:01 AM
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QUOTE (davidecit @ Sep 21 2013, 12:23 AM) *
Yes, the file are over compressed, I want to have maximum bitrate/quality for 4,37 gb, not for 3,98. The problem is that Nero says "Your dvd iso/folder will be 4,37 gb", while it makes only 3,98 gb. So I could have about 400 mb to improve video quality, that's the problem.


PS: I know that files from nero recode will be re encoded to edit bitrate etc, but after that it should decrease from 5.18 to 4,37, not to 3,98, that's the point. Thanks.

Hopefully someone like Mister_M will come along. My understanding is that the compression achieved is dependent on the complexity of the imagery. I have no idea how the estimate is made, but it is an estimate. I don't think the final bit rate is precisely the bit rate specified in the quality settings. While I write this, I am encoding an example at 7710 Kbps, a number I arrived at by increasing the bit rate until the estimate just exceeded the limit and then backing off slightly. My guess is that the final bit rate/file size will be different. I'm using multiple copies of the Flower Meadow sample.

Edit: Results are in. 3.50 GB (3,769,316,421 bytes), not 4.37 GB.

VTS_01_1.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6576 Kbps.

VTS_01_2.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6605 Kbps.

VTS_01_3.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6605 Kbps.

VTS_01_4.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6212 Kbps.

I suppose it would be possible to use a higher bit rate in the quality settings and ignore the warning that a failure may occur, relying on the estimate being high. But then, a failure may occur! But, that's not a disaster when writing to a hard drive folder. Maybe I'll give that a try later.


Edit #2: Results are in again: 3.51 GB (3,775,638,894 bytes), not 4.54 GB (estimate at 8000 Kbps).

VTS_01_1.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6586 Kbps.

VTS_01_2.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6616 Kbps.

VTS_01_3.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6618 Kbps.

VTS_01_4.VOB overall bit rate from MediaInfo 6225 Kbps.

So, I guess trying to force a higher bit rate doesn't necessarily result in one.






This post has been edited by ArmandLiberi: Sep 21 2013, 12:13 PM
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wither
post Sep 21 2013, 02:22 AM
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Jens-f answer is correct. Davidecit should provide the requested information.
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Mister_M
post Sep 22 2013, 09:11 AM
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@ ArmandLiberi: It's really difficult to compare bit rates of the same video trans-/recoded by 2 different programs. You're right, if you use a variable bit rate (like Nero does for example), the compression depends on the picture complexity. But that's only one aspect. The used encoding matrix is also influencing the picture quality, the compression and therefore the output-file size.

I tried to reproduce your situation. I just tested encoding 2 TV-recordings (mpeg2) to DVD-Video without SmartEncoding. The output size is 4.29 GB (of 4.3 GB, this is a nice result, I think). All options were set to "Automatic" and the encoding method was 1-pass in the 1st run and 2-pass in the 2nd run.
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ArmandLiberi
post Sep 22 2013, 12:56 PM
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Mister_M:

I suppose davidecit is gone. If you were trying to duplicate my test, please note that I used the Flower_Meadow sample video. It's been a while since I made the test files, but I think his is what I did:

I made a DVD Structure from the sample.

I made 70 copies of the resultant .VOB using a batch file.

I made a new DVD structure by importing and joining the 70 .VOB files. Quick with SmartEncoding. Now, I have a ~20 minute .VOB.

To make the 6.08 GB structure, I imported and joined 8 copies of the 20 min .VOB and then SmartEncoded ignoring the warnings.

I tried fit-to-target on that result.



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davidecit
post Sep 22 2013, 02:15 PM
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I am here, what info should I provide? I will give all info you need to try to solve my problem :).
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Mister_M
post Sep 22 2013, 02:17 PM
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ZITAT(ArmandLiberi @ Sep 21 2013, 01:01 AM) *
While I write this, I am encoding an example at 7710 Kbps, a number I arrived at by increasing the bit rate until the estimate just exceeded the limit and then backing off slightly. My guess is that the final bit rate/file size will be different. I'm using multiple copies of the Flower Meadow sample.

To get this right... You are trying to increase the output bit rate over the bit rate of the input files?

A rather useless test IMO because it's an unreal scenario. When I was testing (also using the Flower Meadow video like you did), I copied the video until the amount of data exceeded the capacity of a DVD-5. Everytime I got a result with ~4.29 GB. Then I used less copies of the video and let Nero fit the result to disc ("Automatic"). This run ended in a DVD-Video folder structure with ~3,76 GB, which is absolutely suitable, since the bit rate (6096 kbps) was only a little higher than the one from the input videos (5763 kbps).

I think, that Nero chooses the output bit rate regarding the input bit rate and selects the most suitable compromise.
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davidecit
post Sep 22 2013, 03:11 PM
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This is my situation:

Source files:

nascitarobertaestate93.mpg 2,05 GB (2.202.558.464 byte)

battesimoroberta.mpg ,02 GB (1.098.285.056 byte)

autunnonatale93.mpg 2,11 GB (2.266.812.416 byte)


CODEC: Mpeg 2 720x576 (mpgv) planar 4:2:0 YUV

Audio: DVD LPCM Audio (lpcm) Stereo 48000 16 bit


_______________________

Nero Output settings:

Smart Encoding-Disabled

4:3 Prorgressive


Quality-Speed: 100

Quality Encoding- High Quality (VBR 2 Pass)

Audio Format: Dolby Digital (AC-3) 2.0

Quality settings: Auotomatic (fit to disc) or 7790 kb/s


If you need something more to know, tell me it. Thanks.
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ArmandLiberi
post Sep 22 2013, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (Mister_M @ Sep 22 2013, 02:17 PM) *
To get this right... You are trying to increase the output bit rate over the bit rate of the input files?

A rather useless test IMO because it's an unreal scenario. When I was testing (also using the Flower Meadow video like you did), I copied the video until the amount of data exceeded the capacity of a DVD-5. Everytime I got a result with ~4.29 GB. Then I used less copies of the video and let Nero fit the result to disc ("Automatic"). This run ended in a DVD-Video folder structure with ~3,76 GB, which is absolutely suitable, since the bit rate (6096 kbps) was only a little higher than the one from the input videos (5763 kbps).

I think, that Nero chooses the output bit rate regarding the input bit rate and selects the most suitable compromise.

I think that the originator of this thread thought that Nero should be able to estimate the output file size more accurately. I am not prepared to argue that point. I also don't know enough about the compression techniques used to know if increasing the bitrate makes sense. However, as I have said long ago, I can certainly imagine that improvements can be made over the input file if, as I understand it, there are "intermediate" frames that can be improved upon. I really don't know. It would appear that the bitrate can increased significantly over the input rate; see the attachment showing a 30% increase. Whether there is any actual improvement in quality I can't say - too old to see that well and too old to really care!



On an unrelated matter, I am having a little difficulty convincing Tech Support that the problem described at the link below is real. I have replicated it on this Nero 12/Windows 8 system and my Nero 11/Windows XP system and using Nero 2014 trial on Windows 8. Both hg-dude and wither have replicated it on their systems with the single exception of wither's Vista system. Tech Support has told me things like "As reported in the forum, there maybe such bugs in our program on some special systems, but such problems should be fixed in the new Nero 2014." and "A reason for the problem could be a problem inside your Windows user-account.
To check this please create a new user on your Windows system (which has administrative permissions), log in as this user and try again
."

Anyway, if you could try it as a MVP, it may help. It only take a few minutes.

NV12 hangs, NV11 crashes, using Stylize Effects

Caution: If you go ahead with this exercise, the following are important:

1. It is affected by duration - it fails for me with 2 or 4 seconds; there's a whole exercise involving this.

2. The sample picture must be the dolphin.

3. The order of the Stylize effects affects it. Apply the first four effects, Coarsen to dolphin 1, ..., Duplicate to dolphin 4.

4. It applies to DVD-Video, not exports.

In any case, thanks.







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wither
post Sep 22 2013, 04:05 PM
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Davidecit- the bit rate shown is optimum for video on a DVD-Video. It leaves a little headspace for the audio.

I'll let Mister_M (and Amarand) continue this discussion.

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ArmandLiberi
post Sep 22 2013, 04:09 PM
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Mister_M:

Please see post #15. Thanks.

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Mister_M
post Sep 22 2013, 04:11 PM
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ZITAT(ArmandLiberi @ Sep 22 2013, 03:20 PM) *
Anyway, if you could try it as a MVP, it may help. It only take a few minutes.

NV12 hangs, NV11 crashes, using Stylize Effects

Caution: If you go ahead with this exercise, the following are important:

1. It is affected by duration - it fails for me with 2 or 4 seconds; there's a whole exercise involving this.

2. The sample picture must be the dolphin.

3. The order of the Stylize effects affects it. Apply the first four effects, Coarsen to dolphin 1, ..., Duplicate to dolphin 4.

4. It applies to DVD-Video, not exports.

In any case, thanks.

Just tested it with Nero 12 and Nero 2014. Both times Nero Video finished the process without a problem. My system is Win 7 64 Bit, 16 GB RAM, Core i7 2600K, nVidia GTX560-Ti OC.
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ArmandLiberi
post Sep 22 2013, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (Mister_M @ Sep 22 2013, 04:11 PM) *
Just tested it with Nero 12 and Nero 2014. Both times Nero Video finished the process without a problem. My system is Win 7 64 Bit, 16 GB RAM, Core i7 2600K, nVidia GTX560-Ti OC.


Strange! So, if you are interested, the problem manifests itself differently on different systems. Why? I don't know.

Well, like it says in the referenced posting, it comes and goes with little changes in durations, etc. Neither of my systems measures up to yours, but I think they're both sufficient for this sort of thing.

Did you use PAL or NSC, 4:3 or 16:9?




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Mister_M
post Sep 22 2013, 04:26 PM
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I used 720x576 PAL 16:9.
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