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> Aspect Ratio basic questions. 720x480 (4:3) vs 720x480 (16:9)
Klimov-Alex
post Dec 4 2011, 11:21 PM
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Hi, guys!


I've just purchased NV11 and found some basic misunderstanding.

First of all, when start a new project, it offers to choose between PAL and NTSC signal (I put NTSC), and also - some standard resolutions. There are a number of questions I do not understand, please make me clear:

1. First two options of resolution - are same pixels (720x480), but different ratios? What's the difference? If there is a Jpeg picture with resolution 720x480 pixels, nobody would ask me which ratio do I need. What the difference to the video format?

2. OK, I've got following things to do: I have a number of video-files with resolution 720x480 (one of them is file AAA.MPG, which properties say that this is MPG file with 720 pixels by 480 pixels), which I need to compile together. I expect that I can open NV11, drag those files to the timeline and make a compilation. NOw I get quiestioned - which format I have to use in NV11 (720x480, 4:3 ratio or 16:9), I expect to avoid any blank bars on the top-bottom, or blank side-bars, right? So I have a video of resolution 720x480, and I'm choosing the resolution of the NV video parameter. Well, what I've got:
- When I choose 4:3 ratio, I've got black bars on bottom and top of the screen. And in the properties of effects (sorry, I try to translate from my language), there is a ZOOM (scale). I see that horisontal rate is 75%, and vertical rate is 100%. Could you help me to understand what those parameters mean?
- When I choose 16:9 ratio and do same things - the image fits perfectly the preview screen, but the ZOOM (scale) is now Horisontal 177.78%, Vertical = 100%.

Please help me to understand, what is the meaning of the ratio in terms of preparation of making video (I get stuck, as if that is some kind of third property of the screen resolution - why it is not shown on file properties), second - what are the ZOOM meanings (I mean - how can I be sure that values like 177% or 75% - do not increase or decrease the number of used pixels and therefore make video quality less due to unexpected stretching or shrinking the resolution based on that ZOOM ratios)?

This post has been edited by Klimov-Alex: Dec 4 2011, 11:23 PM
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adrianob2
post Dec 5 2011, 02:53 AM
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Hi Klimov-Alex,

I have not all the answers, and I leave some to more skilled user or Nero Support.

Anyway if you wish to know someting more about the properities of your clips, then download MediaInfo from http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/ and run it against the clips.

Regarding relation bt aspect ratio and resolution, give a look to "Movie Options". In the left side of the dialog you will see the "resolution"/"aspect ratio" and in the right side you can see "Pixel resolution" too. If you choose on the left same resolution and different aspect ratio the pixel resolution will change.

The best for your movies is to have the same res and the same aspect ratio of you inputs, if they are all identical.

Hope this can help

Regards

Adriano
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hg-dude
post Dec 5 2011, 03:04 AM
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Hi,

1. The setting of the video mode depends on the region code of the area you are living in, NTSC is for rc 1 and PAL for 2. If you are not sure you can choose your country from the selection list.
2. For your first trial you should use the default settings in the recording format options initiated during installation for the media type you would like to create. Here a screen shot (in German, sorry) of the settings which you should have before you are opening a NeroVideo (NV) DVD-Video project

Attached Image


The aspect ratio for the project is set automatically based on the aspect ratio of the first imported file. If you are mixing aspect ratio on a DVD you should start with the wide format.

At this point we have to clarify some points as support should not be based on assumptions:

1) What was the source for your video file, a Mini-DV tape ? or
2) a file imported to HDD from a storage media of your camera ?
In this case I need the file informations. With MediaInfo (free sw can be downloaded from web) you will get extended informations.
3) How did you convert the source to .mpg, which option of NV did you use for that, "Record on disk" or under "Create a DVD"/"Content" with "Record" (capturing from camera) ?
There must be something wrong as you said you have black bars at all sides in the display area.

The aspect ratio of the photos is not of interest in the moment.

Before proceeding you should answer these questions.

Here a screenshot as it looks after the first import before opening "Editing".

Attached Image


The source for the file, which was imported, was a video from a Mini-DV tape with an aspect ratio of 16:9 (recorded in 4:3/720x576, horzontal compressed). The project setting were these described above.

Meanwhile take a look to documentation Adriano has suggested above. And don't think to much about aspect ratios and resolutions. For that you have the default settings. Manually settings are exceptions, means, they are only required under certain circumstances. ;-)

Regards

Hans-Gerhard

This post has been edited by hg-dude: Dec 5 2011, 03:40 AM
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Klimov-Alex
post Dec 5 2011, 09:22 AM
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Thank you, guys!

Actually there is still a lot of confusing for me.

adrianob2, as per movie options, there are 720x480 (4:3) and 720x480 (16:9) resolutions (I use NTSC). ANd the difference is in the Pixel resolution.. BUT what is this for?

Actually when I open ANY video file by windows media player it doesnot ask me which pixel resolution do I have? If video is 720x480, and my computer display is, for example, 1440x960, it would just ZOOM two times on the full screen, so I would not get any black lines on top and on bottom, right? So for Windows media player he doesnot care which "pixel resolution" do I have, correct? And in file properties, there is also a lot of useful information about pixels, bitrate, e.t.c., but nothing about pixel resolution.. SO for Windows, I see, it is not something like an important parameter. (I think that it is not even a parameter of the movie, as pixel resolution would be a parameter of the display, so nothing connected to video file, right?)

SO I really do not understand why NV needs to know the pixel resolution, and depending on this resolution, he would either put my video file with black blocks on top and on bottom or would fit the screen size. I don;t mind to get used to 16:9 format and use it on all files, but I still get confused.

OK, one more example... I Would like to use the user-defined resolution (let's say 672x480). I can set up this in Movie option, right? SINCE pixel resolution is quite important parameter for NV, where I can setup this pixel resolution for this new case?


hg-dude Thank you for your ideas, but actually what I have - is a lot of video-files in WMV, MPG and MOV formats. SO my job is to put them together in one video-presentation file, TO TRY NOT TO LOOSE MUCH QUALITY (and that's why for me it is very important and very concerning the ZOOM parameters of the video, so not to get unnecessary ZOOM just because I am using different (wrong) pixel resolution or stuff like this, which I didnot clearly understand yet, but NV automatically puts values something like 75% or 177%, as I described before).

PS. My native system is PAL, but most of videos are captured with 720x480 resolution, NTSC format, so if I use PAL - I just tried - I put PAL, 720x576pixels, 16:9, I put my 720x480 video files and found that they are automatically stretched on the screen (so no blank bars any side), BUT the ZOOM parameter is 120% horisontal and 120% vertical. I am getting confused again - since difference is only in vertical pixels (and horisontal stay 720 pixels anyway) - why he ZOOMs my video proportionally 120%?



Well, thank you guys for the answers, I bet my question is not that seldom and unparticular.


PS2. 15 minutes later. Guys, I just tried to use Custom's resolution (720x480), NTSC and it automatically put me aspect ratio 3:2 and pixel resolution 1. I tried to put there my video-files with resolution 720x480 and found the black bars on top and on bottom, whereas the ZOOM parameters: Vertical = 100% (though there are some black bars), Horisontal = 84% (though it is as wide as a screen)... Pfuf. So much confusing. I mean, for example, all my videos would be 720x480, and I would like to crop them as some of them need to be crop from the ends, so for me it would be enough to have a final resolution, for example, (680x450). I am expecting that I would create a new project, choose resolution 680x450, and then everywhere put my 720x480 pixels video files with 100% ZOOM (so no compression, just original size), but instead - I get non-expected zooming of my videos, which is non-proportional, and if I put everywhere 100% instead of suggested values - I get stretched of shrinked screen... I've got totally lost.

This post has been edited by Klimov-Alex: Dec 5 2011, 09:42 AM
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hg-dude
post Dec 5 2011, 02:51 PM
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Sorry, but you caused your confusion by yourself. On the way you are going you are never comming forward. So stop these unnecessary trials. It makes our support only more difficult and with discussing single problems we are wasting our time.

Ok, as you didn't give the answers as I have requested I try to figure out your situation. First of all, and that's the main fact of which my further suggestions and instructions are based on, creating of your DVD will be a sequence of subprocesses to bring the different formats of your source together on a "clean" way. That you have to accept.

The mainpoint, which is important for planning, is the aspect ratio of 16:9, because there are two methods (depending on the source material) of fitting for playback on a wide (16:9) screen monitor:
- Videos token with a DV-Camcorder (on Mini-DV tape) are WIDENED horizontal for fitting on the display
- Videos stored on all other media devices (or recorded with a receiver card) are ZOOMED for fitting. That seems to be the most of your material.
If you don't have DV sources, it would simplify the workflow. SO THIS QUESTION SHOULD BE CLARYFIED AT FIRST ! It's an important base for the further instructing.

Another thing is, you have Region Code 2 (PAL) but most of your sources are NTSC (as far as I understood). Don't worry, that's no problem. This material will be edited at first completely in a NTSC project and after changing the project setting to PAL converted in the last transcoding (burning) step.

The first level of the preprocesses is now, creating (single) DVD-Video projects for each ORIGANAL source type with the default settings (video mode depending of the source) described in my first reply to find out their fitting behaviour. Fitting/adjustment must be correct without the requirement of ZOOMING. That means NO black bars on top and bottom. At the sides there can be small black bars in videos and photos as well, that's normal and can be corrected in the final editing step, if necessary (e.g. for effects). Keep (save) these projects for later use.

So. I hope you know, what you have to do at first. I am waiting now on the results (for each source !) of the preprocessing.
And again you should be prepaired that we need the MediaInfo of your source material. You e.g. need it to find out the video mode which is fixed by the frame rate. 25 fps (frames per second) means PAL, a value beween 29 and 31 means NTSC (the most used standard is 29.97 fps). You should therefore download this freeware and install on your PC.

Furthermore it would be helpful to know with which equipment/tools your original material was token (photos, videos) resp. created (e.g. .wmv and .mpg).

If you have questions or problems with the instructions above, please let us know before starting experimenting

Regards

Hans-Gerhard

@Adriano, - are you agreeing this way for supporting this thread ?

This post has been edited by hg-dude: Dec 5 2011, 09:07 PM
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wither
post Dec 5 2011, 04:30 PM
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He asked about the 177% x 100%. 177\100 = 1.77777.... which is 16:9.

If you choose 720x... (16:9), then I think you'll have to put up with black bars for 4:3 material or you'll most likely end up with pixelation and other effects if you chose to fit it to a 16:9 window. In previous versions of Nero, you could crop the files in Recode but that's no longer there and it would be a tedius procedure if you have many videos and slides.

Give hg-dude what he asked for and maybe he can come up with something that will work better.
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Klimov-Alex
post Dec 5 2011, 06:17 PM
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Thank you, guys!

I would need some days to do this job (thank you, DUDE, I would try to do what you've wrote) and make more clear about this weird situation about aspect ratio. I do not know if everybody clearly understands the nature of this aspect ratio, but for me it is still unclear, as I know what pixels are for, and I know that if resolution is 720x480 - it means 720 pixels by 480 pixels under any weather. But why 720x480 video cannot fit the screen of 720x480 pixels just because of different aspect ratio - that is very unclear. And if so, how on NV11 can I change the aspect ratio on other resolutions? Like 640x400 or any other? SInce aspect ratio is so important parameter, I wonder why we do not put it together with choosing resolution.

PS. I was not going to create a DVD. I mainly need to make a video-clips (made of mix of different files, so to put them to one standard resolution), which I could put on youtube or things like that.
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hg-dude
post Dec 5 2011, 11:38 PM
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DVD or Clips, there is no difference in the workflow, you have to create both in a DVD project. But instead burning a DVD the final step for clips is exporting with converting to .mpg4 (for publicating in YouTube e.g.).

I don't understand your difficulties in dealing with aspect ratios and resolutions. May be there is something like "deformation professionelle" on my side. Anyway it's very simple if you are looking aspect ratio and resolution as two different things.

Aspect ratio is the relation of picture sides (Lenght to high). The main aspect ratios used in the media world are 16:9 and 4:3. As the most digital photo cameras in the consumer area are using CCD sensors in 4:3 format (some few 3:2), pictures in 16:9 are the part in the middle of the high of an 4:3 picture. That means, the width has the same number of pixels as the width of the 4:3 picture, and the high has 75% of the pixels which the high of the 4:3 picture has. An exception are DV camcorders (recording on Mini-DV tape) with 4:3 sensors. There the full high remains but the width is horizontal compressed. That's about 4:3 sensors.
The special sensors for the full HD formats have an aspect ratio of 16:9 and must be handeled separately therefore in the editing process. Discussing about the new media formats produced by mobiles e.g. is obsolete at this place. They all are supported in Recode.

Now to the resolution. It depends on the size of the sensor. A 10.0 Mp (mega pixel) 4:3 sensor produces a picture with a resolution of 3'648*2'736 e.g. For editing in the SW this resolution is downsized to that of the media type automatically (therefore you must not think about that !), e.g.720*576 for DVD-Video.
Just a moment, - 720*576 (instead 540) ??? There must be something wrong. Indeed, it is and causes irritation. It is a standard of DirectX resp. DirectShow, which is Window's layer in the OS for handling media. The explaination, - in the display areas of the SW all lines of a video frame are visible, that means those too (at the top and bottom) which are not part of the picture content. These lines contain eg. the time code, teletext, protection informations etc. As these Informations cannot be displayed, the picture is spread in the high or width for adjusting to the display area. But this has no influence on playback because the aspect ratio itself is not affected by this process. And finally, for adjusting the picture on a monitor screen these lines are ignored resp. not visible, because they are outside the so called "save area".
Anyway, for adjusting pictures in a display area the main rule is, they have to be fitted in the full high of the area. Otherwise something is wrong. But as I said above, there may be exceptions, which require a specific handling.

To your last sentence: If you were understanding, what I have explained above, not a standard resolution but a basic aspect ratio you have to fit for your "product".

Everything clear now ? It's sophisticated, I know, but no reason for desperation.

Now let's go on.

Regards

Hans-Gerhard

! I have added some more informations about the video mode to the previous reply.

This post has been edited by hg-dude: Dec 6 2011, 10:06 AM
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adrianob2
post Dec 6 2011, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE (hg-dude @ Dec 5 2011, 02:51 PM) *
@Adriano, - are you agreeing this way for supporting this thread ?


Hi Hans-Gerhard,
of course I agree.You have a methodical approach, and I like it.

Thanks for help.

Adriano
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Klimov-Alex
post Dec 6 2011, 08:31 AM
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Hi Hans-Gerhard,

Thank you for your ideas. Just to make clear of what I have to do:

1. Before starting working with NV project, I need to reconvert all my video-clips to something standard. That is the reason why you recommend to open DVD-project, open there one-by-one clips (they would automatically have size adjustment) and export them to some MPEG2 files. So I drag&drop there one file, press "convert" and save as DVD-video compatible file. So in other words - we would reconvert all my files to MPEG-2 (DVD-resolution) for better compativility when working with NV project. Right?

My concern - is the video quality. I believe each recompression leads to loss of video quality, and therefore if first step I use DVD-video to recompress video file, so the quality would be worse than original..

I've just tried to open the 640x480 file on DVD-video. When I hold the mouse over video file in the list, it gives me some strange information. Do you have any idea? See below:

Source properties:
length 0:00:28s
Resolution 640x480
Ratio 4:3

Receiver properties:
length 0:00:28s
Format NTSC
Ratio 4:3
Quality user-def (8000kbps)
Resolution 704:480 (D1)... !! Can you comment why resolution is different to original? And if that is due to reconvertion - does it mean that when I save file - it would be 704x480, and if so - I would face the quality low-down due to this operation being done?
Format progressive.

E.t.c.


SO actually there are three questions:

First - if I understood correctly that it is better to pass all my video clips through DVD-video conversion (I open file there and press "convert", as if I press "next" button - I enter the DVD-menu screens page. So this Export file should be done for better compatibility of my clips files when working on NV project.

Second - due to extra convertion operation - I am worrying about video quality loss.

THird - when I put file 640x480, and the standard format of the receiver is 704x480, I would have some deformation of the video aspect ratio when saving file?


Sorry for the mess. I get used to Photoshop and working with pictures, but video is some kind of new experience, where not all things are that obvious.
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hg-dude
post Dec 6 2011, 12:43 PM
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No, no, no, - I was never instructing to use the DVD project for exporting/converting your files, - not yet, because it would be part of the second level of processing ! Sorry, that was a misunderstanding.

The first steps with creating DVD projects, are for finding out the adjusting of the pictures (frames) of the ORIGINAL source in the display area.

For that a further explaination. The aspect ratio of the display area (in the "Content" resp. "Editing" screen) is chosen on the aspect ratio of the picture/video, it can be 4:3 or 16:9. If the imported source doesn't have the exact one of these, the next fitting area will be chosen (depending on the size of the picture/frame ORIGINAL) and black bars are added to the picture content on 2 opposite sides.. E.g., if the picture may be fitted exact in the high but the width is lower, black bars are added to the sides and if it has the exact width, to the top and bottom. With import pictures/frames are downsized (if necessary) or enlarged to the size of the display area, in the last case with some (few) loss of quality.
The process described above is valid for the first import only and is correct, if the picture/frame is fully fitted in the display area resp. has black bars at two opposite sides only. If there are black bars on all sides the process has failed. The reason is, that the aspect ratio for the project was set manually to 4:3 or 16:9. This can be corrected only with starting the project new with setting "Automatic" for the aspect ratio.
If subsequent imports have black bars at all sides, the aspect ratio of the video/picture does not fit to the initial aspect ratio of the project. This must be corrected in subsequent editing steps.


So again, at first you have to do these single projects for each ORIGINAL source as I have instructed above, to find out their fitting/adjusting behaviour. I have to do the same with media which were unknown to me until now !
I need screen shots from the display area in "Editing" and once of the settings before opening you were using all projects. Here an example from an .avi original

Attached Image
Attached Image


and additionally the MediaInfo of this file. You see, we have here more informations as in the properties from the browser. That's the reason you should install MediaInfo.

Attached Image


Sorry, that I am not answering your questions as they have to do with conversion (problems). And for that is not the time here in this early phase. We have to come forward.

Regards

Hans-Gerhard

12/08/11 Partly corrections



This post has been edited by hg-dude: Dec 8 2011, 12:59 PM
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Klimov-Alex
post Dec 9 2011, 01:45 PM
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Hi, Hans-Gerhard!

I just collected all your information and tried one more time to make my project... Please think what do I do wrong here, as I think I have made some step forward, but still didnot finalize yet.

OK, SOURSE. I have found 3 kinds of video files which I need to mix together. One is 720x480 pix (16x9 ratio). Second is 720x480 pix (16x9 ratio) with which are not the full screen, but with black bars on each size. So somehow those files have original black border (around 40 pixels each side)... ANd third kind of video - is 640x480 pixels (MOV format, taken from my Olumpus photo-camera)..

So trying to minimize the quality loss, I decided to make a new picture frame with resolution 640x400. It means - when 640x480, it would crop something from top, something from bottom. If in case 720x480, it would crop something from each side. As about 720x480 which has already borders on each size -they would be eliminated. And what is more important - now in the Scale (zoom) of each video, I put "original size", so when 640x480, it would show me 100 and 133%, on 720x480 it would show 90 and 100% and e.t.c. (I still have some feel of misunderstading why in some cases I have a scale with % more than 100%, and on other cases - less, though in both cases Original frame is larger than screen frame)...

NEVERTHELESS. Now I see that (I have a feeling) due to at least one ZOOM parameter is 100%, so I would have more-or-less same finished quality (so when convertion, it would not resize my original video files)..

SO FINALLY, I've got quite nice output (when pre-play), so I escaped all black bars on any size.

THAT's PERFECT, and I think it would satisfy my needs.

NEXT STEP was - to make a convertion to some format, so to get a video-file as a result. Here I get problem.

1. WMV. I tried to convert to WMV. Thank god, I can manually choose the output resolution. So since I have a project screen resolution 640x400, I choose same one... Oops. Start converting - and it gives black bars on left and right... WTF? I tried to put (in WMV parameters) different resolution (like smaller, for example 352x288, 592x400) - same result. And black bars stay same size (proportion), so decreasing width pixels - it doesnot decrease the black border size.

SEcond thing which I could not find - is the audio parameters. In the original, I use MP3 files which are playing on the background. But for Internet, I wanted to reduce the quality (so to reduce the total size of file). I could not find any parameter of changing audio quality in convertion, only I can choose Mono or Stereo.. Maybe I do something wrong????

2. I tried to convert to different file format, so maybe there I could avoid getting black bars? I tried to convert to FLV. The funnies thing - is that on FLV I can choose the resolution from a list, so let's say it gives 640x480, then 640x360, then 480x480, then 480x272. So for Internet it looks like there is no possibility to choose the resolution I need. And same question about audio quality - nothing there.

3. Ok, I tried different resolutions on FLV format: 480x272, 352x288 - it gives same result (left & right black borders). When I change aspect ratio to 4:3 (instead of 16x9) - it makes me black borders from every side..

4. I tried also AVI (DV) with resolution 720x480, it gives me same black borders from left and right...


SO my main concern - if I have a screen resolution 640x400, which with pre-play has no black bars - can I do something in NV to convert it to some file also without black bars???? Please recommend me what to do in this case?


PS. AS about Media info - I would try to work it out within next few days - to download your recommended program, and see how useful it is to gather information....


THank you,

This post has been edited by Klimov-Alex: Dec 9 2011, 01:50 PM
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wither
post Dec 9 2011, 05:21 PM
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Too bad Mister_M isn't patrolling the forum. He's is excellent with these kinds of things.

In regards to the audio- When you open Make Movie where you select the resolution you want to use, click on Advanced Settings and Audio. You can adjust the sampling rate there as well as specify mono or stereo.

Otherwise, I think you would have to export the audio to file and then adjust the audio characteristics in WaveEditor.

You should consider sending an e-mail to tech support regarding these issues.
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hg-dude
post Dec 9 2011, 06:19 PM
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Hi,

Ok, the first what you were doing was ok, but all subsequent steps were superfluous ;-(, - eplaining it below.

If you nowhere have black bars at top and bottom in the display area the results of this first step are correct. But it seems you forgot photos (.jpg). The black bars (40 pix) in one 16:9 import are pointing to an original aspect ratio of 14:9, which is a standard too but is not explicitely supported in NV. 4:3 imports can have black bars at the sides, but they are irrelevant (more see below).

But to be sure, I need the screenshots from each mini project:
a) From the display area of the content screen after choosing "Edit" like that

Attached Image


and
b) From the display area of the Edit screen like that

Attached Image


and
c) The Mediainfo of each file you have tested in this project

Attached Image


Once again, you should keep these mini projects for further use.

Now to the PICTURE QUALITY. For the final result (the MPEG-4 video) it is that, which you see in playback of your files with a sw player. A better you don't get. Therefore further "screwing" is neither required nor possible.

To the ASPECT RATIO. Your leading aspect ratio for the final video is 16:9 and this is therefore the aspect ratio for the main project. That means you have to set aspect ratio for the project (before open !) to "Automatic" and import the first file with an aspect ratio of 16:9. The best is taking this file where are no black bars at the sides. Subsequent imports which are 4:3 have of now course broad black bars at the sides. Zooming these picutures that they are adjusting at the side boarders makes no sense, the quality loss is to big. But the decision is yours.

To AUDIO. There is no preparing required. The audio conventions are fit in the MPEG-4 format for publicating on a community and can't resp. should not be changed. The audio tracks in the project are converted.

Now you can try the first steps of the second level of processing, the editing. This has to be done in the mini project for each file type separately. It is cutting, adding effects and linking sequences (of the same file type !) togethere to "logical" sequences. Attention (check again): The video mode of the imports must be identical with the setting of video mode for the project.


If you like, you can try once a test on the third level of processing, - importing (for the first time) one file from each type into one project. The first must be 16:9 as mentioned above. You can change the sequence after importing all files. Than finish the video and export it with conversion to MPEG-4 (use the default settings for .mpg4 in the export options). Playback this video on a sw player.

That's all in the moment.

Regards

Hans-Gerhard

This post has been edited by hg-dude: Dec 11 2011, 08:15 PM
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Klimov-Alex
post Dec 9 2011, 06:21 PM
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Hello, guys!


Few more questions. I've loaded Mediainfo - that is really good software... But with some answers, it came up some questions.

1. I just decided to test what is confusing, so to get to the truth... So I get original file (FILE 1), also same file but converted by someone else (FILE2) and I tried to make same convertion parameters as on FILE2, so I get my own (FILE 3)...

NOW questions.

1. While keeping WMV aspect ratio 16:9, it still makes me 3:2 (see in file 3). Why it happens? I made WMV conversion - choose WMV, choose customized parameters and there keep 720x480 and e.t.c....

2. Playback. When I playback all those 3 files on Windows media player, with ZOOM = 100%, the video itself is shown only 720x405(approximately). SO the Windows media player shows a screen 720x480, but there are black blocks on top and on bottom. If needed, I can make a screenshot... The more interesting thing comes when I try to playback those 3 videos on VLC media player (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/). SO when playback (same ZOOM = 100%) FILE1, it gives me the video resolution 850x480, no black bars... When I play FILE2, it gives me video resolution 720x405, whereas the screen is 720x480, so I have a black bars on top and on bottom... And when I play FILE3 (which is ABSOLUTELY SAME (by Mediainfo parameters) - it gives me 720x480 video, without any black bars. SO if to compare to FILE2, the video gets more stretched in vertical way (so let's say, faces are more narrow)...

I have no idea why it happens.. IS there any idea?????

PS. 2 Wither. No, this is not a solution. When you compress the Audio, you need to adjust a bitrate. Have a look at AUDIO parameters on FILE 2 and FILE3. Same bit depth, same sampling rate.



FILE 1 :

General
Complete name : C:\Users\Alex\Documents\NeroVideo\ExportedVideo\50TSR_M-part_plastic PD.mpg
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 59.6 MiB
Duration : 51s 40ms
Overall bit rate : 9 797 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 50s 984ms
Bit rate : 9 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.869
Stream size : 55.6 MiB (93%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 51s 40ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -67ms
Stream size : 2.73 MiB (5%)



FILE 2 :

General
Complete name : C:\Users\Alex\Documents\NeroVideo\ExportedVideo\50TSR-plastic pressure.WMV
Format : Windows Media
File size : 4.06 MiB
Duration : 51s 3ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 668 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 662 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-06-02 10:03:56.250

Video
ID : 2
Format : WMV2
Codec ID : WMV2
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Video 8
Description of the codec : Windows Media Video V8
Duration : 51s 18ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 584 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.056
Stream size : 3.55 MiB (87%)
Language : Chinese (TW)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : WMA
Format version : Version 2
Codec ID : 161
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Audio
Description of the codec : Windows Media Audio 9.2 - 64 kbps, 44 kHz, stereo (A/V) 1-pass CBR
Duration : 51s 2ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 64.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 399 KiB (10%)
Language : Chinese (TW)


FILE 3 :

General
Complete name : C:\Users\Alex\Documents\NeroVideo\ExportedVideo\NVEExport.0002.wmv
Format : Windows Media
File size : 6.21 MiB
Duration : 51s 755ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 006 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 915 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-12-09 14:08:02.791

Video
ID : 2
Format : WMV2
Codec ID : WMV2
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Video 8
Description of the codec : Windows Media Video V8
Duration : 51s 752ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 584 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.056
Stream size : 3.60 MiB (58%)
Language : English (US)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : WMA
Format version : Version 2
Codec ID : 161
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Audio
Description of the codec : Windows Media Audio 9.2 - 320 kbps, 44 kHz, stereo (A/V) 1-pass CBR
Duration : 51s 755ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 320 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.97 MiB (32%)
Language : English (US)



This post has been edited by Klimov-Alex: Dec 9 2011, 07:33 PM
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Klimov-Alex
post Dec 9 2011, 06:41 PM
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Hi, Hans-Gerhard!


Thank you very much for your explanation, but I think we misunderstood each other. You try to keep me on 720x480 resolution, whereas I need something different.


Ok, let's make it very simple.... PLease read my post above.. Let's take the FILE 1 video. It is of resolution 720x480... Let's suppose I have a website, where I need to put this video as FLV (flash)... The resolution 720x480 is too big for the website, so it would be perfect to have a resolution let's say 640x400... There are 2 questions for you, please advice.

1. How can I make a FLV file with 640x400 resolution? It looks like NV gives me only standard 720x480 or 640x480, so no possible to make any changes...? It is strange why it was not done on NV, maybe in next versions (I feel sad about this as almost all video-converters have a possibility to adjust the output resolution)... Or maybe I didnot find some hidden buttons to be able to do that?

2. Ok, let's forget about 1st question, so I start a new project and import this file (FILE 1). It's resolution is 720x480. I want to crop this file, so let's say the ORIGINAL file has some black bars (it's not full-screen) or I want to cut some defects at the corners of scene... Let's say I would feel good if I crop 720x480 till 640x400, so I would crop 40mm each side from original video resolution... PLEASE RECOMMEND what should be the steps? As far as I understand, I have to start a new project with resolution 640x400, otherwise if I keep it 720x480, I could not crop later... PLease advice which steps do you recommend to do in such case?

PS. Hans, you second time recommend "Automatic" aspect ratio. But what I see - is I have a button "movie options", and I see that my files (with help of MediaInfo) are 16:9, so why do I need to change to "Automatic"? I just to go movie options and put there 720x480 resolition with 16:9 aspect ratio... I even can change it whenever I want (for example to change to 640x480 and see how it would suit on a preview window (it automatically appears black bars on sides)... SO I can change back to 720x480.. I mean - why I need this automatic?

THank you,

This post has been edited by Klimov-Alex: Dec 9 2011, 06:49 PM
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Klimov-Alex
post Dec 9 2011, 09:26 PM
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Hans-Gerhard, one more question to you.. I just realized that I explained maybe too long some things. Ok, getting back to my post Nr12. I have a customized resolution 640x400 (it might be different), I made zooming of all videos so they are without any black bars on the preview screen, I start convert to WMV with 640x480 resolution and it makes me black bars... My brains refuse to understand this...
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Mister_M
post Dec 10 2011, 01:28 PM
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Sorry for not being around for a long time. I had to manage private issues the last weeks.

Although almost everything was explained in this thread, I will come back to Klimov-Alex's first post and answer those primary questions. Because there's a flood of information in all the last posts, I will read them one after another to perhaps add some important info if necessary. But Hans-Gerhard has given quite good guides to solve those issues. So I am only going to summarize the whole topic in my answers.

Q1: 720x480 (4:3) - 720:480 (16:9) What's the difference?
A1: When you take a look at the resolution you have to differentiate the aspect ratio (which is given here) and the pixel ratio. You can say, that the aspect ratio uses the real "physical" amount of pixels, which are used in the video, to describe the ratio of the whole picture. The info with 177% by 100% describes this aspect ratio (1.77:1 = 16:9). So, how can 4:3 and 16:9 have the same resolution? Therefor we have to take a look at the pixel ratio. That's the aspect ratio of each pixel in the video. Those a stretched to display the 16:9 ratio correctly (as hg-dude stated before). This comes from the DVD-format restrictions, which only allow a max. resolution of 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL).

So, 4:3 and 16:9 details simply describe the aspect ratio of the whole picture.

Q2: What do the parameters 177.78% by 100% mean?
A2: As hg-dude said, that only describes the aspect ratio, because the amount of pixels is fixed to 720x480 due to DVD-format specifications. 133.33% by 100% would be 4:3.

Q3: Quality loss due to zooming picture?
A3: As long as the resolution (and the bitrate) isn't changed there won't be a visible quality loss. So if you have a 16:9 source video with NTSC-resolution, everything will be alright. The only little problem can be the source file with the 640x480 resolution because it's 4:3. (The recommended resolution of 704x480 is called cropped NTSC and is mostly used at the broadcasting sector to save bitrate [higher bitrate -> higher costs]. You should ignore that and use the full NTSC-DVD-resolution of 720x480 to get the highest possible compatibility for playing back the DVD on stand alone players.)

There are now two ways to integrate that 640x480 video.

First option - No change of the resolution: Since the video has the same height as the other videos (x480), there will be no picture quality loss. However you will get black bars on the left and on the right then.
Second option - Zooming the picture: To avoid the just mentioned black bars on both sides you can zoom in the picture. You can do that by clicking on the video in preview screen. A white border will appear around the video. Now hold your mouse cursor over one corner until it turns into a diagonal double arrow. Now click and drag until the black borders on both sides disappear. Disadvantage: Picture content on the top and bottom will get lost, the picture can get a little blurrier. To avoid a too big quality loss, you should activate the "superresolution" feature, which is an extremely efficient resize algorithm.

To minimize the picture quality loss on the whole, you can also activate the SmartEncoding feature in the video format options ("More" -> "Option"). If the input picture format is compatible with the chosen output format, NV11 recognizes (not always) that and the picture won't be reencoded.

Another important issue, which can be ignored here, is the framerate. But because of all videos being NTSC, they should all have the same framerate of 29.97 fps.

My last question is: In what output format do you want to convert your source files??? Do you want to get a DVD for playing it back on stand alone players? Then you should directly create a movie with the files in NV11 and get to the DVD-Video project there. Converting to wmv before will cause a further picture quality loss and is unnecessary here. Also wmv isn't a really great video format...

Sorry for double posting any answers!
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wither
post Dec 10 2011, 04:55 PM
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Hi Mister_M, nice summarization. All I had to do is mention your name in one of my posts above and you magically appear. :)
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hg-dude
post Dec 11 2011, 02:52 PM
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Hi Alex,

Although I have nothing to add to Mister_Ms comments (I am completely agreeing with him. Special thanks for supporting me !) I would like talking about some thoughts, which would, as I think, be helpful for the further dealing with this thread.

At first a little history about me and my experience. I was a difficult guy in my childhood (and lateron too), because I was a so called WHY-child for my environment, a big problem for my family, my friends and my teachers due to straining their nerves. Why, why, why .... it was the most used term in this time of my life, - for everything I was instructed for, I need an explaination. It was not a problem of difficulties with understanding what I have to do but the need to check myself for correctness of that, what people were expecting from me.
Once I had a teacher for mathematics, a professor from the university and a genius in developing and presentating mathematical solutions. But he was unable to explain how to create resp. reconstruct a simple formula. He didn't realize our difficulties of understanding. So once, when he was annoyed about our demanding for explaination, he said: "Doing your work exactly as I have instructed, than there is no need for explaination of a formula". Lateron he has commented his "hard words". He said "An important fact in teaching is trust. The best teacher can make mistakes. But these are not corrected by explaining formulas but with analizing, so with that, what we are just learning here". The theme of his lecture was System Analysis. End of history.
What I will say with that, we shouldn't spent time with explaining but work on solutions. Anyway I am still once more comming back (but it's the last time) to your last question about the setting "Automatic". As you know from my explainations above there are two methods of dealing with the aspect ratio 16:9 for adjusting the picture on a tv screen (and in the display resp. work areas of the sw !) depending on the recording format of the source. One is that for DV/Digital8 video format with an 16:9 aspect ratio, where the frame is horizontal compressed for recording on tape. Here the frames are widened for adjusting. The other is for all other formats, which are adjusted by (automatical) zooming. That means, the method has to be identified for editing. This is only possible with presetting "Automatic" for the aspect ratio in NV.

You must have these settings (aspect ratio to "Automatic" !) before opening a new project because only than the format is correctly handled for justifying in the display resp. work area. With presetting to 16:9 this is impossible as well as with changing after import. Of course, these settings must be used too in the Option "Recording to disk". The first import determines the method for editing and lateron the handling for the output of this project, so e.g. the playback of the DVD. The method setting remains preserved in exports too for further use e.g. for creating another DVD, but on playback of the video in the web it has no influence. Is this clear now ?

Now another point, I would like to clarify. As far as I have mentioned until now, you must be a beginner in this area. Don't care, we all were once beginners. But you are making a mistake like many off them. You were starting up with a task which requires a lot of experience you don't have. So the first what you should do is to get some basic experience for the three levels of the workflow of a task resp. project, which are
1) planning and preparing the input sources. This starts with taking your videos/pictures and ends with transferring the sources to the pc.
2) Creating a project and editing and
3) Publishing

So I am suggesting training with a small project, wherein you are going through all levels. For that you have here the best environment including MyNero for publishing. Start with a 16:9 video only with editing which is urgently needed, but without converting (with exception for publishing) and manipulations.with the size, because you must have a clear base for analizing your results. And for instructing/informing you should use the documentaion/manuals at first, allways thinking "you would be lost in the dessert", means you should be prepared, helping youself.

To see, what you would expect from your final project, here some screenshots from a mini project I have created with sources of all formats/aspect ratios you are using.

The Editing screen. File d) was imported at first for determing the aspect ratio and than moved to the end of the video stream.

Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image

Attached Image


a) is a video token with a digital photo camera
b) are photos
c) is a photo in wide format. As the aspect ratio was not exactly 16:9 it has to be zoomed a little bit for justifing completely in the display area
d) is a 16:9 video token with the D8 camcorder. The small black bars at the sides are part of the source and are not visible in playback.

I hpoe you are understanding my suggestions.

Regards

Hans-Gerhard

This post has been edited by hg-dude: Dec 11 2011, 03:00 PM
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